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Post by Gelata on Jun 12, 2020 0:43:47 GMT
Hi, everyone.
As some of you know (and anyone can notice) English is not my mother tongue. But I love it, and I use it everyday, both for work and pleasure.
Nevertheless I always find sentences or expressions that I don't fully understand. I may get the meaning, and also be able to use them properly, but the structure is confusing to me.
So, I have created this thread in order to have a space where I could ask my questions (as I used to do at the SKMB), and hope somebody will be so kind to answer.
Thank you!
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Post by Anthony on Jun 12, 2020 1:06:31 GMT
That's a good idea. This place is a bit smaller in numbers but still friendly and helpful. If nobody has answered your questions by the time I see them I'll be happy to help.
I wish I would have learned a 2nd language at school but the only option was french and I wanted to learn German or Japanese. I started using duolingo to learn a little spanish because my friend is too. She's much more advanced than me.
It is fun to learn though.
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Post by Gelata on Jun 12, 2020 10:30:21 GMT
Thank you, Anthony, very kind of you. And if you have any questions about Spanish, I will be more than happy to help. |
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Post by spideyman on Jun 12, 2020 13:52:35 GMT
Hi, everyone.
As some of you know (and anyone can notice) English is not my mother tongue. But I love it, and I use it everyday, both for work and pleasure.
Nevertheless I always find sentences or expressions that I don't fully understand. I may get the meaning, and also be able to use them properly, but the structure is confusing to me.
So, I have created this thread in order to have a space where I could ask my questions (as I used to do at the SKMB), and hope somebody will be so kind to answer.
Thank you!
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Post by osnafrank on Jun 12, 2020 15:04:03 GMT
Great Thread. 
English is a mandatory subject here.
We had to choose between French and Dutch as a second foreign language
and i choose Dutch.
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Post by Gelata on Jun 13, 2020 10:33:16 GMT
Hi.
Here's my first question: When somebody asks about the meaning of what other person said, I usually hear the expression "What is that mean?"
My question is, shouldn't it be "What does that mean"?
I guess the first is an informal way of speaking, but anyway, it doesn't sound grammatical to me.
Any thoughts about it?
Do you often use that form?
Thank you so much.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2020 13:30:50 GMT
Maybe you are hearing them say "What's that mean'? which is basically a shortening of the original sentence "What does that mean".
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Post by spideyman on Jun 13, 2020 13:44:04 GMT
Hi.
Here's my first question: When somebody asks about the meaning of what other person said, I usually hear the expression "What is that mean?"
My question is, shouldn't it be "What does that mean"?
I guess the first is an informal way of speaking, but anyway, it doesn't sound grammatical to me.
Any thoughts about it?
Do you often use that form?
Thank you so much.
I agree with @notaro, that many, especially in the USA, contract wording in sentences, even to the point of not clearly announciating. Thus when meaning to say What's that mean?-- it is heard as What that mean? |
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Post by Gelata on Jun 15, 2020 11:31:26 GMT
Thank you so much, spideyman and @notaro . But I still wonder, " What's that mean" cannot possibly be a contraction of " What does that mean", right? And I think I have sometimes heard " What is that mean?" (no contration). Anyway, thank you for your ideas, you're so kind (and I am a bit fussy about grammatical details  ) |
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Post by spideyman on Jun 15, 2020 12:40:12 GMT
Thank you so much, spideyman and @notaro . But I still wonder, " What's that mean" cannot possibly be a contraction of " What does that mean", right? And I think I have sometimes heard " What is that mean?" (no contration). Anyway, thank you for your ideas, you're so kind (and I am a bit fussy about grammatical details )
So, I did a little research and have the following:
what that mean
A type of wrong grammar, as it could not be used in a single question: What that mean? This phrase could be used at the end of a question sentence, but there must be an 's' following the 'mean': Do you know what that means? This is already accepted in the English Language, as the phrase is often used in the public.
Also - I can't think of a specific example, but you could possibly write a sentence about mathematics using the phrase 'what is that mean' (where 'mean' = average). You can see the English definition here: www.wordreference.com/definition/mean
Gelata: I found this discussion on another forum:
"What does" sounds like "what is" because /t/ and /d/ are the same consonant, and the /s/ in both is and does is voiced-- a /z/ in other words.
It's very difficult to aspirate the /t/ when it's followed by another /t/ or /d/. Usually there's a glottal stop, but in the case of the t-to-d progression, this is unnecessary because you can simply end on a /t/ and voice it as you move to the /z/ of the word that follows.
This facilitation entails an elision of the vowel, or its reduction to a schwa. You get wha'd əz it mean. Because the /d/ is preceded by a glottal stop at the end of what, where one expects to hear a /t/, the voiced /t/ gets lost, and the /əz/ glide sounds like the word is.
A little technical in all its detail. Given the right context, "what does" can sound like "what is."
I suspect that 'What is that mean?' is a 'hypercorrect' form of 'What's that mean?' = 'What does that mean?' 'Hypercorrection' is where a speaker believes that his habitual speech pattern is non-standard, and he tries but fails to express himself in a more standard speech pattern.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 12:40:24 GMT
Thank you so much, spideyman and @notaro . But I still wonder, " What's that mean" cannot possibly be a contraction of " What does that mean", right? And I think I have sometimes heard " What is that mean?" (no contration). Anyway, thank you for your ideas, you're so kind (and I am a bit fussy about grammatical details ) It can indeed be a contraction, for example, if someone is pointing at something in the distance they can say, "What is that over there?" they could also shorten it to "What's that over there?". So "What does that mean" can likewise be shortened to "What's that mean". It may not be correct grammatically but it is a acceptable in everyday conversation. |
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Post by Gelata on Jun 15, 2020 16:54:51 GMT
Thank you so much again, spideyman an @notaro. Your ideas and axplanations are very helpful and enlightning to me
I remember my headaches when studying English phonetics at university, and how difficult it is sometimes to match the grammar theory to the real use of speakers.
I always try to analise every use of the language, because I love the English language so much and I would like to know all its "secrets".
Thanks again for your time and interest.
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Post by neesy on Jun 15, 2020 21:01:57 GMT
Thank you so much again, spideyman an @notaro . Your ideas and axplanations are very helpful and enlightning to me
I remember my headaches when studying English phonetics at university, and how difficult it is sometimes to match the grammar theory to the real use of speakers.
I always try to analise every use of the language, because I love the English language so much and I would like to know all its "secrets".
Thanks again for your time and interest. That's pretty neat that you like the English language so much - did you know it's also used in Air Traffic Control?
The only other language I have studied is French but if I had all the money in the world I would like to go to University to learn languages.
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Post by Gelata on Jun 16, 2020 10:00:02 GMT
Thank you so much again, spideyman an @notaro . Your ideas and axplanations are very helpful and enlightning to me
I remember my headaches when studying English phonetics at university, and how difficult it is sometimes to match the grammar theory to the real use of speakers.
I always try to analise every use of the language, because I love the English language so much and I would like to know all its "secrets".
Thanks again for your time and interest. That's pretty neat that you like the English language so much - did you know it's also used in Air Traffic Control?
The only other language I have studied is French but if I had all the money in the world I would like to go to University to learn languages.
Yes, neesy, I know it is used in Air Traffic Control; in fact one of my university mates works as a controller and another one is a pilot. I did English Studies at university, and afterwards I also studied Italian. I wish I would have also studied French, German, Russian... so I perfectly understand you |
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Post by Gelata on Jul 20, 2020 10:01:08 GMT
Hi, everyone. Hope everything's ok.
I have new questions for you regarding the English language.
I'm reading, and enjoying so much, If It Bleeds, and now and then I find some uses of language that I find peculiar or new to me.
For instance, the word "poobah" (in "Mr. Harrigan's Phone", page 5). The dictionary, and the context, tell me that it means "the big boss", but I feel curious about the word itself. Can you tell where it comes from? And is it a word of common use among native English speakers?
Thank so much!
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Post by spideyman on Jul 20, 2020 13:08:32 GMT
Hi, everyone. Hope everything's ok.
I have new questions for you regarding the English language.
I'm reading, and enjoying so much, If It Bleeds, and now and then I find some uses of language that I find peculiar or new to me.
For instance, the word "poobah" (in "Mr. Harrigan's Phone", page 5). The dictionary, and the context, tell me that it means "the big boss", but I feel curious about the word itself. Can you tell where it comes from? And is it a word of common use among native English speakers?
Thank so much!
Poobah is a term derived from the name of the haughty character Pooh-Bah in Gilbert and Sullivan's The Mikado (1885).[1] In this comic opera, Pooh-Bah holds numerous exalted offices, including "First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral ... Archbishop ... Lord Mayor" and "Lord High Everything Else". The name has come to be used as a mocking title for someone self-important or locally high-ranking and who either exhibits an inflated self-regard or who has limited authority while taking impressive titles.[2] formed as pooh + bah, both expressing contempt. Libretto by W. S. Gilbert, preceded by character Pish-Tush-Pooh-Bah (described as “haughty”) in “King Borriah Bungalee Boo” (1866), one of the Bab Ballads, with pish and tush other terms of contempt. In popular culture The term "Grand Poobah" was used recurringly on the television show The Flintstones as the name of a high-ranking elected position in a secret society, the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes. The main characters, Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble, were members of the lodge. The lodge is a spoof of secret societies and men's clubs like the Freemasons, the Shriners, the Elks Club and the Moose Lodge.[3] The character Howard Cunningham on the TV series Happy Days was a Grand Poobah of Leopard Lodge No. 462 in Milwaukee |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2020 18:55:05 GMT
Hi there! Here in Sweden two foreign languages is mandatory. English is always your A-language. Then you choose your B-language. I selected French which i have forgotten almost all of now. In the studies i did you also had to choose a C-language and i choose german. For me at least it does not matter so much, you forget fast unless you keep them alive somehow. English was no problem since i read most of my books in english. I also have a brother that lives in the states that i have visited. My french is almost dead. But my german was saved from the grave by me getting a job in germany and i lived there for three years. Now thats a long time ago and its getting very rusty but i still manage. But my english is still fluent even if noone would take me for a native speaker of the language.
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Post by neesy on Jul 20, 2020 20:13:17 GMT
Hi, everyone. Hope everything's ok.
I have new questions for you regarding the English language.
I'm reading, and enjoying so much, If It Bleeds, and now and then I find some uses of language that I find peculiar or new to me.
For instance, the word "poobah" (in "Mr. Harrigan's Phone", page 5). The dictionary, and the context, tell me that it means "the big boss", but I feel curious about the word itself. Can you tell where it comes from? And is it a word of common use among native English speakers?
Thank so much!
I'm going to pick up a copy of If It Bleeds some time this week - they are holding it for me at a library across the river . In popular culture The term "Grand Poobah" was used recurringly on the television show The Flintstones as the name of a high-ranking elected position in a secret society, the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes. The main characters, Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble, were members of the lodge. The lodge is a spoof of secret societies and men's clubs like the Freemasons, the Shriners, the Elks Club and the Moose Lodge.[3] The character Howard Cunningham on the TV series Happy Days was a Grand Poobah of Leopard Lodge No. 462 in Milwaukee  First thing I thought of! Hi there! Here in Sweden two foreign languages is mandatory. English is always your A-language. Then you choose your B-language. I selected French which i have forgotten almost all of now. In the studies i did you also had to choose a C-language and i choose german. For me at least it does not matter so much, you forget fast unless you keep them alive somehow. English was no problem since i read most of my books in english. I also have a brother that lives in the states that i have visited. My french is almost dead. But my german was saved from the grave by me getting a job in germany and i lived there for three years. Now thats a long time ago and its getting very rusty but i still manage. But my english is still fluent even if noone would take me for a native speaker of the language. It's too bad I couldn't make it to Colorado back in 2016 - it would have been great to talk with you!
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Post by Gelata on Jul 21, 2020 16:08:36 GMT
Hi, everyone. Hope everything's ok.
I have new questions for you regarding the English language.
I'm reading, and enjoying so much, If It Bleeds, and now and then I find some uses of language that I find peculiar or new to me.
For instance, the word "poobah" (in "Mr. Harrigan's Phone", page 5). The dictionary, and the context, tell me that it means "the big boss", but I feel curious about the word itself. Can you tell where it comes from? And is it a word of common use among native English speakers?
Thank so much!
Poobah is a term derived from the name of the haughty character Pooh-Bah in Gilbert and Sullivan's The Mikado (1885).[1] In this comic opera, Pooh-Bah holds numerous exalted offices, including "First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral ... Archbishop ... Lord Mayor" and "Lord High Everything Else". The name has come to be used as a mocking title for someone self-important or locally high-ranking and who either exhibits an inflated self-regard or who has limited authority while taking impressive titles.[2] formed as pooh + bah, both expressing contempt. Libretto by W. S. Gilbert, preceded by character Pish-Tush-Pooh-Bah (described as “haughty”) in “King Borriah Bungalee Boo” (1866), one of the Bab Ballads, with pish and tush other terms of contempt. In popular culture The term "Grand Poobah" was used recurringly on the television show The Flintstones as the name of a high-ranking elected position in a secret society, the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes. The main characters, Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble, were members of the lodge. The lodge is a spoof of secret societies and men's clubs like the Freemasons, the Shriners, the Elks Club and the Moose Lodge.[3] The character Howard Cunningham on the TV series Happy Days was a Grand Poobah of Leopard Lodge No. 462 in Milwaukee Thank you so much, spideyman, for your wonderful explanation! I didn't know the opera you mention, and had never heard the word Pooh-Bah in any context. And it hadn't ocurred to me to think of "pooh" and "bah" separatedly. The Flintstones were very popular in Spain when I was a child. But we had the episodes dubbed into Spanish, so I could have never heard the word. All the funny names and curious words were adapted. Thanks again, dear. |
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Post by unpronounceable on Jul 27, 2020 19:02:51 GMT
Hi there! Here in Sweden two foreign languages is mandatory. English is always your A-language. Then you choose your B-language. I selected French which i have forgotten almost all of now. In the studies i did you also had to choose a C-language and i choose german. For me at least it does not matter so much, you forget fast unless you keep them alive somehow. English was no problem since i read most of my books in english. I also have a brother that lives in the states that i have visited. My french is almost dead. But my german was saved from the grave by me getting a job in germany and i lived there for three years. Now thats a long time ago and its getting very rusty but i still manage. But my english is still fluent even if noone would take me for a native speaker of the language. Seems like you have similar structure in education as in my country. Only our B-language is (or in my time, at least was) Swedish. I also chose German for my C-language. Over the years, I've noticed improvement in understanding written and spoken English. On the other hand, I find it difficult to produce fluent language. I keep forgetting phrases and idiomes, and when that happens, I tend to forget what it is in my own language. What helped learning foreign language in my youth (and quite significantly), was that all the tv shows and movies were (and are still) subtitled, not dubbed. |
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