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Post by Deviancy on Mar 13, 2021 3:53:59 GMT
Getting into the Hannibal thing isn't easy, talk about a lot of depth.
I've only read Red Dragon, seen all the films however, but I'd like to read Silence OF The Lambs sooner or later, I know the film is pretty faithful but there's more detail in the book of course. Buffalo Bill is seen as Ed Gein like but there's more to him then being an Ed Gein knock off, he's got a whole different psyche. It's getting harder to find books in brand new shape these days because Barnes and Noble is treated like a library, most of the books are beat because people just toss them around and skim them while in the store, and online, its hit and miss condition wise. There used to be a great book/magazine store out here, was out here for decades, it was just called the Covina Bookstore, and all the books were in excellent shape because they didn't allow people to treat the store like a library, and the owner was a total book junkie, but sadly, he passed away and the wife sold the store to a fitness company. Oh well, I enjoyed it for 35 years...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 4:18:32 GMT
Ginger Snaps basically did the same with the werewolf genre but as much as I like that film, the Let films did it better. I was checking random top ten vampire film lists today, almost every single site has 'Let The Right One In" as either #1 or #2. Its almost book time, but I heard there's now a deluxe edition featuring the short epilogue he wrote later on about them getting off the train, not sure if there's an english version of the combined version though. Time to ask Kurben
@kurben
Kurben have you read Let The Right One In? I think I saw a post a while back that you had. If so, what did you think of it?
Let the right one in is an excellent novel. In my view one of the great vampire novels, (one of the few i might add). Personally i like the swedish movie more. It is set, just like the novel, in a wellknown swedish suburb to stockholm. The author, Ajvide Lindqvist, has written a kinda sequel, a novella length story where we get a glimpse of our two child heroes again. But they are not the main characters. Another book i can recommend from this author is Handling the Undead, a very different approach to the zombiegenre. Other really good books from him are Little Star and Harbour. But Let The Right One In is, IMO, his best book.
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Post by wolf on Mar 13, 2021 4:32:43 GMT
......I don't see what is wrong with getting an inexpensive beat up copy of a book, so you can read it, and then later hunting down a mint or near mint copy to collect for whatever reason. Whether it be for monetary value in later days, or just to have it always. Same thing with comic books. I have a ton of mint editions and older expensive vintage classics. Never got into them for the money. It's all a one sided racket and ripoff. I'd rather have the books/comics for the art and writing.
Thomas Harris' "Silence of the Lambs" is a great read. Gets to be fairly disturbing, and mildly shocking in the first couple of chapters. Movie concentrated on the more 'out there' stuff and didn't bother with a lot of the details, like most movie adaptions do. More than understandable.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 4:41:35 GMT
Getting into the Hannibal thing isn't easy, talk about a lot of depth. I've only read Red Dragon, seen all the films however, but I'd like to read Silence OF The Lambs sooner or later, I know the film is pretty faithful but there's more detail in the book of course. Buffalo Bill is seen as Ed Gein like but there's more to him then being an Ed Gein knock off, he's got a whole different psyche. It's getting harder to find books in brand new shape these days because Barnes and Noble is treated like a library, most of the books are beat because people just toss them around and skim them while in the store, and online, its hit and miss condition wise. There used to be a great book/magazine store out here, was out here for decades, it was just called the Covina Bookstore, and all the books were in excellent shape because they didn't allow people to treat the store like a library, and the owner was a total book junkie, but sadly, he passed away and the wife sold the store to a fitness company. Oh well, I enjoyed it for 35 years... I liked both Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs as both book and movie. Hopkins and Foster is absolutely brilliant in the latter. Sadly, when they made a new Starling movie, Hannibal it was a disaster in my view. Part of it was that Julianne moore could not fill Fosters shoes but most of it had to do with script. Moore is a very good actress but here it did not work. The book in my view was also bad. But i'm sure he got handsomely paid. You can almost sense that he has lost some interest when you read Hannibal. But it got even worse with the book, and movie, Hannibal Rising which were awful. Harris even admitted he had been pressed by the movie company to write another Hannibal story. The quality was thereafter.
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Post by wolf on Mar 13, 2021 6:47:44 GMT
Getting into the Hannibal thing isn't easy, talk about a lot of depth. I've only read Red Dragon, seen all the films however, but I'd like to read Silence OF The Lambs sooner or later, I know the film is pretty faithful but there's more detail in the book of course. Buffalo Bill is seen as Ed Gein like but there's more to him then being an Ed Gein knock off, he's got a whole different psyche. It's getting harder to find books in brand new shape these days because Barnes and Noble is treated like a library, most of the books are beat because people just toss them around and skim them while in the store, and online, its hit and miss condition wise. There used to be a great book/magazine store out here, was out here for decades, it was just called the Covina Bookstore, and all the books were in excellent shape because they didn't allow people to treat the store like a library, and the owner was a total book junkie, but sadly, he passed away and the wife sold the store to a fitness company. Oh well, I enjoyed it for 35 years... ...Buffalo Bill and Hannibal (as well as other fictional serial killers) were based on Ed Gein. Fascinating characters all inspired by that flamin' freakazoid....I just happen to think that Harris did the best work from that inspiration. (surely the most popular by the general public's standards) Truly his characters he developed are the most interesting and intricate, in my opinion, compared to others.
But lets set aside the killers and look at the detectives/cops/agents that interacted with and apprehended them. Also very interesting and unique ....Clarice and Will and Crawford....
Jeff Lindsay, who wrote "Darkly Dreaming Dexter" is another author who came up with an intriguing and unique character...though Dex wasn't based on Gein in any way that I know of. I really liked how Dex, with the help/experienced guidance of his adopted father, not only learned to, but chose to, use his particular 'proclivity' for the best good he was able to.
I haven't gotten to read any of his (Linsay) books yet, but I did really like most seasons of the series.
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Post by wireman on Mar 13, 2021 13:13:09 GMT
Time to ask Kurben
@kurben
Kurben have you read Let The Right One In? I think I saw a post a while back that you had. If so, what did you think of it?
Let the right one in is an excellent novel. In my view one of the great vampire novels, (one of the few i might add). Personally i like the swedish movie more. It is set, just like the novel, in a wellknown swedish suburb to stockholm. The author, Ajvide Lindqvist, has written a kinda sequel, a novella length story where we get a glimpse of our two child heroes again. But they are not the main characters. Another book i can recommend from this author is Handling the Undead, a very different approach to the zombiegenre. Other really good books from him are Little Star and Harbour. But Let The Right One In is, IMO, his best book. Thanks. I'd like to read those. Unfortunately, I will have to read translated versions.
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Post by Deviancy on Mar 13, 2021 22:32:43 GMT
......I don't see what is wrong with getting an inexpensive beat up copy of a book If I wasn't sure about the book I would go that route but I'm sold now based on what Kurben said, so I'd just be double dipping and the used copy would just end up in the trash. I mean re-selling it on Ebay, I don't like wasting my time selling stuff on Ebay, it's just too much work, and there's no used book stores anymore, and Goodwill can bite me for reasons I won't mention due to the rules of the site. As for the Hannibal franchise, Harris did lean on Gein heavily but there's traces of Gacy in Buffalo Bill and traces of the Son Of Sam in Dollarhyde, and traces of Bundy in Hannibal. It was obvious Harris dug deep into all the of the iconic serial killers when he came up with his characters, just leaned on Gein the most. But like Harris, I've also done a lot of digging into the whole thing, so it was easy to see where he got his influences from at the very beginning.
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Post by Deviancy on Mar 14, 2021 0:21:18 GMT
Let the right one in is an excellent novel. In my view one of the great vampire novels, (one of the few i might add). Well I'm sold and you're right, there really are just a few. As for Hannibal Rising, you're totally right, they dangled more money in front of him then he could refuse, so he quickly wrote Hannibal Rising, and they quickly got the film out, and both lacked heart/substance. There's talk of a Clarice show in the works, not a good in my opinion but there's also talk of an Aliens show. Too much is never a good thing.
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Post by Deviancy on Mar 14, 2021 1:29:01 GMT
I kinda want to do a thread just about the Let The Right One In/Let Me In franchise, so while this one can continue being about Hannibal, vampires, etc, and so on, the other one is going to be strictly about all things to do with the Let franchise, including the comic.
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Post by wolf on Apr 3, 2021 19:37:05 GMT
I got half way through the reboot of I Spit On Your Grave but then I had to do a quick computer upgrade so I didn't finish it, I never seem to finish it though. I always get to the part where she's about to get revenge on the Sheriff and his poor daughter has to be told to stay outside, or something like that. From what I've seen, its a huge improvement over the original but while it is a revenge film, its got some pretty graphic sexual content, not as graphic as the original, as far as I can remember but still pretty graphic. The reboot spawned a sequel with a different girl, and the third film brings the original girl back as a helper for abused women, haven't see it yet. As for Daredevil, I never understood the hate, Ben isn't the best actor in the world, but it's a good film, and Evanescence's 'My Immortal' really puts across a few scenes. I'll say this, I prefer him as Daredevil over Batman, only Bale has done Batman right so far, we'll see how Pattinson does I guess, if that's still the plan. As for the Flash, the tv series I think is sufficient, its a pretty good show and the special effects for a network tv show, not bad at all. I think it would be overkill to also do a Flash movie actually, when the show is on once a week. I got half way through the reboot of I Spit On Your Grave but then I had to do a quick computer upgrade so I didn't finish it, I never seem to finish it though. I always get to the part where she's about to get revenge on the Sheriff and his poor daughter has to be told to stay outside, or something like that. From what I've seen, its a huge improvement over the original but while it is a revenge film, its got some pretty graphic sexual content, not as graphic as the original, as far as I can remember but still pretty graphic. The reboot spawned a sequel with a different girl, and the third film brings the original girl back as a helper for abused women, haven't see it yet. As for Daredevil, I never understood the hate, Ben isn't the best actor in the world, but it's a good film, and Evanescence's 'My Immortal' really puts across a few scenes. I'll say this, I prefer him as Daredevil over Batman, only Bale has done Batman right so far, we'll see how Pattinson does I guess, if that's still the plan. As for the Flash, the tv series I think is sufficient, its a pretty good show and the special effects for a network tv show, not bad at all. I think it would be overkill to also do a Flash movie actually, when the show is on once a week. I prefer Keaton to Bale. I really like the job Keaton did as Batman and Bruce Wayne. I think he was a really good pick for that type of Burton flick. For me Bale was alright, but he was the least favorite.
Anne Hathaway was a much better Catwoman than I expected. I liked that film much more than I thought I would.
Daredevil was a good movie....it just wasn't what I wanted it to be. Daredevil was a favorite comic hero of mine, and Affleck just didn't meet my expectations of a Matt Murdoch on screen.
The follow up "Electra" was another good one.
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Post by edwardjohn on Apr 3, 2021 19:45:57 GMT
I got half way through the reboot of I Spit On Your Grave but then I had to do a quick computer upgrade so I didn't finish it, I never seem to finish it though. I always get to the part where she's about to get revenge on the Sheriff and his poor daughter has to be told to stay outside, or something like that. From what I've seen, its a huge improvement over the original but while it is a revenge film, its got some pretty graphic sexual content, not as graphic as the original, as far as I can remember but still pretty graphic. The reboot spawned a sequel with a different girl, and the third film brings the original girl back as a helper for abused women, haven't see it yet. As for Daredevil, I never understood the hate, Ben isn't the best actor in the world, but it's a good film, and Evanescence's 'My Immortal' really puts across a few scenes. I'll say this, I prefer him as Daredevil over Batman, only Bale has done Batman right so far, we'll see how Pattinson does I guess, if that's still the plan. As for the Flash, the tv series I think is sufficient, its a pretty good show and the special effects for a network tv show, not bad at all. I think it would be overkill to also do a Flash movie actually, when the show is on once a week. I really like the job Keaton did as Batman and Bruce Wayne. I think he was a really good pick for that type of Burton flick. For me Bale was alright, but he was the least favorite.
Anne Hathaway was a much better Catwoman than I expected. I liked that film much more than I thought I would.
Daredevil was a good movie....it just wasn't what I wanted it to be. Daredevil was a favorite comic hero of mine, and Affleck just didn't meet my expectations of a Matt Murdoch on screen.
The follow up "Electra" was another good one. What I love about all of the Batmen we've got on screen is that they are all different. Keaton is like a gothic, horror film Batman. Bale was realistic. While Affleck was the closest to the comics. One of the reasons why I am not interested in Pattison is that he seems to not really be doing anything unique.
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Post by Deviancy on Apr 3, 2021 22:38:46 GMT
What I love about all of the Batmen we've got on screen is that they are all different. Keaton is like a gothic, horror film Batman. Bale was realistic. While Affleck was the closest to the comics. One of the reasons why I am not interested in Pattison is that he seems to not really be doing anything unique. Bale, he had the physique, the looks, and sold the tough guy, and Nolan and Bale captured the Batman and the Joker from the ones Frank Miller and Alan Moore created, not the more tame versions that other writers have created over the years. Ben comes in at #2, he can't act as well as Bale but he also leaned on Miller's Batman instead of the tamer versions. Hathaway = Best Catwoman but they should have played on the former prostitute thing a bit. Bale = Best Batman Ledger = Best Joker Devito = Best Penguin (don't care for Burton's work usually but I liked how he was deformed to be Penguin like, it was a creative idea) But I only like Batman stories written by Miller and Moore, so that plays into why I prefer the Nolan films. Currently watching The Crow, I forgot how much I like this damn film. The reboot is still being discussed, they actually cast the guy who played Aquaman and was in GOT, I can't spell his name, to play Eric but he backed out, so they're back to the drawing board again, which is for the best. That GOT guy is just "too" buff to be Eric, Eric is supposed to have an average athletic build and still be kind of waify, I mean he was just an average guy who gets killed and becomes the Crow, not a WWE wrestler who gets killed and becomes the Crow. Weird, sometimes they go too skinny with the casting, and sometimes they go too buff, but sometimes they get it perfect, like they did with Nolan's Batman films, and the X-Men nailed it pretty well. Wolverine is supposed to only be 5'3 and Jackman is a lot taller than that but I let that slide because good luck finding a good actor who is also really tiny and buff and has that look. Danzig wanted to play Wolverine really bad and he's about 5'4, and he kind of has the look, but he can't act very well...
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Post by wolf on Apr 3, 2021 22:55:10 GMT
What I love about all of the Batmen we've got on screen is that they are all different. Keaton is like a gothic, horror film Batman. Bale was realistic. While Affleck was the closest to the comics. One of the reasons why I am not interested in Pattison is that he seems to not really be doing anything unique. Bale, he had the physique, the looks, and sold the tough guy, and Nolan and Bale captured the Batman and the Joker from the ones Frank Miller and Alan Moore created, not the more tame versions that other writers have created over the years. Ben comes in at #2, he can't act as well as Bale but he also leaned on Miller's Batman instead of the tamer versions. Hathaway = Best Catwoman but they should have played on the former prostitute thing a bit. Bale = Best Batman Ledger = Best Joker Devito = Best Penguin (don't care for Burton's work usually but I liked how he was deformed to be Penguin like, it was a creative idea) But I only like Batman stories written by Miller and Moore, so that plays into why I prefer the Nolan films. Currently watching The Crow, I forgot how much I like this damn film. The reboot is still being discussed, they actually cast the guy who played Aquaman and was in GOT, I can't spell his name, to play Eric but he backed out, so they're back to the drawing board again, which is for the best. That GOT guy is just "too" buff to be Eric, Eric is supposed to have an average athletic build and still be kind of waify, I mean he was just an average guy who gets killed and becomes the Crow, not a WWE wrestler who gets killed and becomes the Crow. Weird, sometimes they go too skinny with the casting, and sometimes they go too buff, but sometimes they get it perfect, like they did with Nolan's Batman films, and the X-Men nailed it pretty well. Wolverine is supposed to only be 5'3 and Jackman is a lot taller than that but I let that slide because good luck finding a good actor who is also really tiny and buff and has that look. Danzig wanted to play Wolverine really bad and he's about 5'4, and he kind of has the look, but he can't act very well... I really love the first "Crow" movie, and did like the second one very much too. I would like to see the reboot.
Vincent Perez was good as Ash. I have liked him in everything I've seen him in. That reminds me, I need to look up a Frankenstein movie he did in the early 2000's (I think it was the early 2000's) Has anyone seen it? Or remember it?
I'm not going to rank performances I think they're all good in their own way, different actors...in very different style movies. Michelle Pheiffer was a really good choice for the Burton film! She was definitely a favorite as that character.
Yeah, it surprises me how many people aren't aware of the fact that Logan was so small of stature. His code name was well chosen....wolverines are smaller predators but terribly and wonderfully ferocious. I was VERY impressed with Jackman, when I first saw him in the role. He did a FINE job of portraying Wolverine in all of the movies. (I'm trying to imagine Glen in that part....nooooo. I can't go that. 🙂)
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Post by wolf on Apr 3, 2021 22:57:18 GMT
I really like the job Keaton did as Batman and Bruce Wayne. I think he was a really good pick for that type of Burton flick. For me Bale was alright, but he was the least favorite.
Anne Hathaway was a much better Catwoman than I expected. I liked that film much more than I thought I would.
Daredevil was a good movie....it just wasn't what I wanted it to be. Daredevil was a favorite comic hero of mine, and Affleck just didn't meet my expectations of a Matt Murdoch on screen.
The follow up "Electra" was another good one. What I love about all of the Batmen we've got on screen is that they are all different. Keaton is like a gothic, horror film Batman. Bale was realistic. While Affleck was the closest to the comics. One of the reasons why I am not interested in Pattison is that he seems to not really be doing anything unique. Bale just never really had the look for me. As Bruce that is.
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Post by Deviancy on Apr 4, 2021 2:43:26 GMT
Bale just never really had the look for me. As Bruce that is. Bale had the face and the body he just was missing the hair, and Nolan went the Alan Moore route and focused on the Batman psyche rather than Bruce Wayne, I mean Batman is who Bruce really is, Bruce Wayne is the costume he wears, at least in his mind. He's not like Peter Parker, then again, Alan Moore has never bothered with Spider-Man as far as I know, and if he has, he didn't do anything relevant. I think he primarily worked for DC and then went indie, don't think he really ever bothered with Marvel, Miller on the other hand bounced between the two and made Daredevil, Punisher, Batman, and numerous others so much better then they were before, only for them to be downgraded once he moved on. Miller wanted to do a Batman story where he just gets all messed up over 9/11 and beats down on anyone resembling a middle eastern terrorist, but DC didn't like the idea, figured it would be bad PR, so he went out and did his own thing and then kind of went wonky. 9/11 impacted a lot of people but he totally went off the deep end and became.. well.. yeah... anyway. Watching Lethal Weapon now, not really into the cop buddy films but its fun.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2021 17:18:10 GMT
Bale just never really had the look for me. As Bruce that is. Miller wanted to do a Batman story where he just gets all messed up over 9/11 and beats down on anyone resembling a middle eastern terrorist, but DC didn't like the idea, figured it would be bad PR, so he went out and did his own thing and then kind of went wonky. 9/11 impacted a lot of people but he totally went off the deep end and became.. well.. yeah... anyway. Yeesh, I usually hate when companies mess with their writer's creative decisions, but yeah that idea sounds like it would have been terrible. I know 9/11 definitely impacted the country and mindsets of many drastically, but I don't see Batman as ever being the xenophobic/racist jump to conclusions type even if he went through trauma. Even if his idea was to turn the story into a "Judging people via nationality is bad" message, the pure story premise alone is just bound to age terribly. Side note about Batman and 9/11, there's a Batman comic from the early 90s in which Two Face is thinking of his next evil plan, and suggests to himself blowing up the twin towers. Then again, it's not like 9/11 was the first time the towers had a terrorist attack/threat on the building.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2021 17:20:22 GMT
I really like the job Keaton did as Batman and Bruce Wayne. I think he was a really good pick for that type of Burton flick. For me Bale was alright, but he was the least favorite.
Anne Hathaway was a much better Catwoman than I expected. I liked that film much more than I thought I would.
Daredevil was a good movie....it just wasn't what I wanted it to be. Daredevil was a favorite comic hero of mine, and Affleck just didn't meet my expectations of a Matt Murdoch on screen.
The follow up "Electra" was another good one. What I love about all of the Batmen we've got on screen is that they are all different. Keaton is like a gothic, horror film Batman. Bale was realistic. While Affleck was the closest to the comics. One of the reasons why I am not interested in Pattison is that he seems to not really be doing anything unique. We'll see when the movie comes out. Because I really liked his performance in 2019's "The Lighthouse", I'm willing to give him a chance at portraying the comic book icon.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2021 17:27:56 GMT
What I love about all of the Batmen we've got on screen is that they are all different. Keaton is like a gothic, horror film Batman. Bale was realistic. While Affleck was the closest to the comics. One of the reasons why I am not interested in Pattison is that he seems to not really be doing anything unique. Hathaway = Best Catwoman but they should have played on the former prostitute thing a bit. Bale = Best Batman Ledger = Best Joker Devito = Best Penguin (don't care for Burton's work usually but I liked how he was deformed to be Penguin like, it was a creative idea) I haven't seen The Dark Knight Rises, so I can't say for catwoman, but I agree with you on Batman, Joker, and Devito's best actors. I've heard The Dark Knight Rises isn't that great from my friend who's a bigger batman fan than I am. He says the film ruins the character of Bane by turning him from this jacked up powerhouse who's secretly very emotionally vulnerable due to childhood trauma, into an uber-tactial and edgy big mouthed terrorist leader. I also don't really see Tom Hardy as Bane, even though I like Hardy as an actor. Asides from the fact that comic book Bane is of South American origin and Hardy is caucasian, I think Bane works much better as an antagonist who can be intimidating without even speaking. I could really see the guy who plays Anton in No Country for Old Men as Bane, he has the look and the intimidating factor.
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Post by edwardjohn on Apr 4, 2021 17:40:58 GMT
What I love about all of the Batmen we've got on screen is that they are all different. Keaton is like a gothic, horror film Batman. Bale was realistic. While Affleck was the closest to the comics. One of the reasons why I am not interested in Pattison is that he seems to not really be doing anything unique. We'll see when the movie comes out. Because I really liked his performance in 2019's "The Lighthouse", I'm willing to give him a chance at portraying the comic book icon. Who knows, he may even become the definitive Batman. A lot of people weren't on board with Affleck (not me right enough) and look how that turned out. I don't think he's really suited to these major film, blockbusters though. Some of the reports coming from the set of The Batman (which has now finished filming) are really weird. There's been reports that Pattison doesn't want to train or is late to set and all of this really unprofessional stuff, not to mention the whole saga with Zoe Kravitz. Whether or not its true is another question, but there have been so many reports, even from reliable entertainment news sites, that you would suspect that some of it is true. I still think they should have waited for Ben Affleck, the stuff I've heard about his Batman script sounded really cool. Basically it was going to be a massive grudge match with Batman and Deathstroke, as alluded to with the end credit scene at the end of Justice League. That's not really something we've seen on the big screen. Whereas this new The Batman film, from what I gather from the trailer, seems like a by the numbers Batman film. I do hope it is good but the consistent delays to the release date, as well as an uninterested lead actor, don't bode well.
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Post by edwardjohn on Apr 4, 2021 17:46:13 GMT
We Went an Seen Godzilla VS King Kong Yesterday. Me an My Hubby Were Right About What We Said.
Godzilla an Kong Team Up Against a Badder Enemy Don't Click My Spoiler if You Haven't Seen the Movie!! I watched it with some of my friends yesterday. It was really dumb fun whenever Kong and Godzilla were actually fighting, but we were so bored whenever it focused on the boring human characters. Unfortunately Kong and Godzilla fighting is only like 25 minutes of the 2 hour runtime, with a lot of space in between fights. If you just cut out almost all the human parts, and just made it actually Kong and Godzilla fighting for 95% of the movie, I would have liked it much better overall. Still, the action scenes were really great, just pure adrenaline fueled monster battles. The first fight is pretty much almost exactly like the eighth episode of Neon Genesis Evangelion though, there were so many scenes in that fight that were just too similar to be a coincidence. I've heard a lot of people make that argument about these new Kaiju films, why don't they just make it about the monsters? The reason why they don't do that is because it would get hell of a boring after a while, even something as amazing as King and Godzilla going at it would get old after a full film of it. Plus, it would have no re-watch factor to it, as if you've seen the fights then you've seen the fights. Also, a full film of CGI monsters would be insanely expensive and wouldn't be worth it considering the money these types of films do. It reminds me of when people talk about Black Sabbath, people say, oh, why don't Black Sabbath do an album just of the heavy stuff, no ballads or slower songs or anything's like that. Well, an album of the same thing, like a movie of the same thing, would become stale and boring. A punch packs more impact after a hug, a wise man once said.
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